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Ok, the moment of truth (for now that is):
As of this article, I've shot and recorded around 200 rounds through the 5R. I can confirm that it shoots like a dream, and is definately easy to clean. I won't say that there is zero copper fouling, but compared to my other rifles it is noticably less.
The factory brands of ammunition I've shot to date are as follows: Federal Match 168 and 175, Black Hills Match, 168 and 175, HSM 175, and a few boxes of M118LR, the military match grade 173 grain ammunition, sometimes available on http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/.
Lately, I've also been experimenting with handloading, primarily due to the rediculous cost of and avalability of ammunition in the last year.
My local range unfortunately only goes to 200 yards, which is my default shooting distance, but I hope to provide some longer range results at some point soon as well. (Update - I just got back from Boomershoot 2008, and had a great time...)
To cut to the chase, the 5R is a shooter. I am very pleased to agree that this could quite possibly be the most accurate production rifle on the market today. I'm not sure how to best categorize all my results except to say that hardly any of the groups so far have been over 1 MOA, and I'm sure they were due to lack of concentration on my part.
Here is my best group so far:


.238 MOA. Half an inch at 200 yards. If you can't tell, that is a dime, not a quarter. This is with (ironically) the M118LR surplus ammunition purchased online. I tell you, you wouldn't believe it looking at the ammunition. This stuff was headstamped 2003, and did not look great. Certainly Not as shiny and new as the Federal or Black Hills match.
It's also fired from the bipod, with a sandbag under the stock, on a bench at the range. No rifle rests, vices, etc.
Here are more results, and remember, the rifle is still practically new - only 200 rounds fired:
Federal 175, 3 shot group at 200 yards - .297 MOA, 5/8 inch. Another group, same day - .56 MOA.
8 groups of M118 averaged .642 MOA, including mistakes that I know I made. At least 60 rounds of Federal 175 averaging .699 MOA. Again, including mistakes.
And most recently, 5 shots at 100 yards using handloaded ammunition - .357 MOA. Black Hills brass, Sierra 175 bullets, and 42 grains of Varget... 2500 fps.
(Update, 12/15/2007 - here is another great group at 200 yards with 175 Sierra BTHP Match, 42 grains of Varget, loaded at 2.80 OAL):
That dime was hit at 200 yards.
I'm telling you, this rifle is not a range queen. I lug it around, toss it into the back of the truck, mess with the scope, etc. The 5R is simply a natural shooter, I can't imagine how well it would shoot in the hands of someone who had more time behind a scope than me.
To wrap up, if you are considering one - do it! You won't regret it, and if you don't buy one, you'll always "wonder". Call snipercountry, or keep checking gunbroker. Those are the only reliable sources I've found for the 5R. As of today, there are 2 new ones listed for under a grand.
That said, it took me a couple months to get up the guts to customize it like I have. If you're not thrilled with the factory stainless look, you'll have to do the same. Once you do paint it, it's a very liberating experience. I'd not hesitate to give my rifle a coat of camo paint because I've taken the big first step.
Take care, and keep me posted!
3/31/2008 Update:
First trip to the range in over 3 months. Check out the coldbore shot (#1)from a clean, cold barrel, only 1/4" low of the very center at 100. That red circle is an inch across:
Then, my best group of the day at 200 yards - 5 shots The center triangle is 1/2 inch...:
Continued from Part 2
Back to Part 1, Part 2, or forward to 5R Photos or Resources
157 comments:
i was looking to buy one at the local shop. they have the rem 700r5 .308. It didnt say anything about milspec.....wanted to make sure they're the same rifle!
Hey, thanks for the comment! I'm not exactly sure, but I would be worried if it didn't say Milspec. Check this link out: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85482059 It is a current gunbroker auction (not mine, i promise). You can see though, that the Milspec reference is clear on the label...
FYI, I added a picture of a typical label to the pictures page. http://www.tobystactical.com/2007/11/5r-photos.html
I HAVE ONE OF THE FIRST 5R MIL-SPEC THAT SHOOTS 3 TO 4 INCH GROUPS AT 1000 YDS THEY WILL SHOOT EVERY ONE I'VE SEEN WILL SHOOT
3 inch groups at 1,000 - awesome!
After my first trip to the range this spring, my coldbore shot was touching the 1" bullseye at 100 yards. After all 5 shots, the group was .48 MOA. This was with my handloaded 175's - 42 grains of Varget. Later I shot a .416 MOA group of 5 at 200 yards. I'll be doing some longer (700 yard) shooting at the end of this month, so I'll post those results too.
I just got back from the range with mine - first trip out. My groups are not quite as good as yours. I'll have to try 42.0 grains of Varget under the 175SMKs. I was shooting 43.5, and I think that's a bit hot.
I have a problem with silver rifles myself, so I had mine Gunkoted black. I stayed with the original stock, however. My scope is a 4.5-14X50 Leupold LR/T Mk 4.
See here and here.
Kevin, your rifle looks great - I love that scope, wish I had one. I think you'll like 42 grains of Varget. I just did some shooting at 700 yards, and the ballistics at that range were still very close to Fed 175's.
I did not see any results for the Blackhills 168s. How did they do out fo this rifle? Thanks, Jim
I've not shot a ton of 168 Blackhills. I'll have to go back and check, but it's all sub MOA for sure.
Wow, great groups. I just got mine broken in. I have been through about 80 rounds so far at 100yrds. Did you have any trigger work done? I'm thinking about moving mine down to 2 pounds.
I have the pre "x-mark" trigger, so it is very easily modified. I dialed it down to 3 pounds and am pretty happy. 2.5 is tempting, but I think 2 is a bit light for me - also, I've read that the stock triggers are a bit unreliable at that weight as well. Could be a rumor, not sure...
Keep me posted!
Hey i just bought an 5-R and was wondering which would shoot better federal gold 168s or 175s. i know the barrels 1-11.25 twist is sopossed to shoot 175s better but i dont know if that is a rumor or not. i shot federal 168s and shot a couple .25 of an inch groups but i dont know how much better i can get than that.
For me, 175's and or M118. I've had some good groups with 168, and need to shoot some more soon, but my best have been with 175.
I bought a 5-R and the way the barrel sits in the stock there is a larger space in between the stock and the barrel on one side of the stock then the other but the barrel is still not touching the stock and the the barrel is completly free floating. I was wondering if that should affect accuracy.
You should shoot it until it is hot, and then make sure a dollar bill will slide up and down the gap, ensuring the barrel is still free floating. if so, you're fine.
Mine is off center a touch as well.
Yeah i can easily slide a dollar bill down the gap. Thank for the info.
I was wondering if the 5-R is suitable for F-class competition. And if you have done any accuracy testing with it at extended ranges.
I think it would be great for F-class. I don't have the ability to shoot at long ranges very often, I wish I did.
It may not have the capability as some of the 6mm rounds, but I think the 175 gmm is pretty capable...
just for info, www.shootersjax.com located in Jacksonville, FL has the 5-R. They have them on sale for $950.
That is where i bought mine i paid 950
I just got an R5 and I am still considering what type of scope I want to put on it. I really like Burris because of the made in the U.S.A. factor and they have awsome glass for the money. I was cosidering the XTR in a fixed 10X power,I am a Marine so im pretty partial to it but im open for any ideas.
I just bought an R5 but havent shot it yet, the main reason for this is, that I havent completely decided on a scope. Right now I a pretty set on a Burris XTR with a mil-dot in a fixed 10X power. Im in the Marines so I like the fact that they are made in America and you half to spend twice as much money to get only an ounce more of quality. Have any suggestions?
I just bought a R5. After reading the content of this site, I am excited about all the things it has the potential to do. I have not shot it yet, mainly because I have not fully decided on a scope. Right now, I am considering a Burris XTR with a mil-dot in a fixed 10X. Have any suggestions?
Have not heard much about Burris. I Like my SS10x, but variable power would be nice, I think, and what I really would like is a good BDC reticle...
Burris Optics are made in the USA out in Colorado and have an amazing reputation in my book so far. You should check them out at their sight,they have several models with mil-dot ballistic plex reticles. I guess im partial to a fixed 10 and USA manufactured product becuase Im a Marine but ill shop around. I may just buy a Night Force and be done with it.
I have a 700 VS in .308 from the mid-'90s. Ever since I've heard of the 5R I've been excited about getting one...and I may shortly have the opportunity to do so.
I handload, and have plentiful M118 bullets available. SMK 175s are widely available, of course. I was wondering: does anyone have any experience with the 5R and the 178 AMAX bullets?
I've loaded some Berger Match 180's but have not shot them yet. Would love to hear more about the A-Max...
I have one on order from Tin Star Shooting Range and my total was $914.99 with shipping.
Should be here in a couple of weeks. Hope it lives up to the hype! Beware that there are some of these that have the J-Lock on them, and obviously the ones without are better. I also have found a Stainless 700P that was a special for Dick's Sporting goods in 2004-2006. Beware that these look just like the 5R, but the finish is matte stainless, no green webbing on the stock, and 6 rifling grooves at the muzzle...
Dennis
Dennis - thanks for the heads up. Were those "Police" models, or were they Varmint?
The 24" barrel on the 5R is generally a good way to be sure. They don't make em in 26"...
Not sure about whether it was a P or Varmint, but it looked just like a P - the finish on the stock and metal was not as nice as a VSF or VS SF. You are correct that it was a 26", and unfluted. I had the model number and serial number of it and called Remington and they told me what it was. The lady had a hard time identifying it but finally found it listed under models built for export as an overrun that was bought by Dick's. I don't have those numbers anymore or I'd share. It was $799, new still, and almost mine. It is probably still on the rack there.
Just got mine yesterday and put a 4.5-14x44 Zeiss conquest on it. Broke it in with 150gr Rem core lokt. Shot some nice groups at 100 and 200, but nothing amazing. Moved on to 175gr Federal GMM and preceded to shoot a 3 shot group at 200 I could cover with a dime just like you showed. Couldn't believe it. I would like to thank you for the content on your website that inspired me to purchase my new favorite gun.
South Dakota - that is awesome! First trip out even!
Nice choice on scope, too. I'm more than a little jealous.
Anyone tried Hornady Match 168 grn A-Max?
Hi Toby,
Just wondering if you can tell me what exact mounts you used. In your blog you said
"Scope base and rings - Tactical Precision steel, 30mm short, mounted on zero MOA solid picatinny base."
But there is quite a few can you tell me the model #'s for the base and rings please I am building your setup:)
Thanks Terry
Hi Toby,
Excellent site and info. I was wondering if you can help me out. I managed to get the 5mil Rem 700 and the super sniper scope just wondering if you can help me with the base and rings I went to TPS but there are so many bases and rings just wondering if you can tell me the model and product # of the ones you got.
Thanks Terry
Hey Terry, here's the base: http://www.tpsproducts.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_2&products_id=2
and I actually can't find the HRT steel low rings I bought, but if I were buying a pair now, it would be these: http://www.tpsproducts.com/product_info.php?cPath=14_22_23&products_id=120
The reason is, I'd like to have the scope even lower than it is currently.
Hope this helps!
Guys I just ordered one of the 700 5r should be in next week. i am interested in if anyone has any tips for mounting a spirit level on the scope similar to the build Kevin did above.
Thanks
Rellim
Check out this website: http://www.longrangesupply.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=69_67
I'm going to order one of these soon. Probably this one: http://www.longrangesupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=69_67&products_id=461.
I've got the one you got rid of the 700P.Had som trigger work about 3lb. breaks like a dream. like your also 1/2 in groups all day. With a Leupold 8.5x25 50 MARK4
Tactial Illuminated mil-dot. I love it & the flat black barrelyou described. Normaly I would want the new one 5R but lets see, all that time & extra money to get what you allready had. Is that about right? Thanks to you write up,I'm now very content with the very accurate & beautiful Remy I have. THANK YOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH:)
Someone asked about the 178 a-max.During break-in with my 5R,shot
numbers 11,12 and 13 were in a single hole measuring .263 at 100
yards,then the wind came up.Can`t
wait to shoot 200 plus.Winchester
cases (new) 43 gr varget,cci bench-
rest primers
I just purchased a Rem700 .308 R5 MilSpec and a 5214509975 Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20X 50 Rapid Z Varmint Matte Scope from Shooters in Jacksonville, FL. I get to break it in and try it out next weekend at 200 yds if the weather is good. I've never shot targets further than 300 yds, but I'm looking foward to it. I'll let y'all know how it goes.
Awesome! Would love to see pictures.
Shooting Results: Rem700 .308 R5 MilSpec and a 5214509975 Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20X 50 Rapid Z Varmint Matte Scope-Federal Gold Medal 168gr Sierra Matchking BTHP
NOTE: Groups measured center to center of furthest shots in group.
17Jan2009 while breaking in barrel-
1"@100 yds 3 shot group
2"@200 yds 3 shot group
3"@300 yds 3 shot group
4"@400 yds 3 shot group
7/8"@100 yds 3 shot group
3/4"@100 yds 3 shot group
1-1/2"@200 yds 3 shot group
25Jan2009 after 50 round barrel break in, no wind, and added a 1" limb saver recoil pad-
1/4"@ 100 yds 3 shot group
3/8"@ 100 yds 3 shot group
3/8"@ 100 yds 3 shot group
3/4"@ 200 yds 3 shot group
2 Mountain Dew cans filled with water @ 300 yds to finish off the day
Sorry I don't know how to post pictures. I am extremely pleased with this rifle and scope. I'm waiting to try some other ammo to see if I can do better. I'm sure this rifle will out shoot my ability.
Nice work! How do you like the scope? 6.5-20 sounds awesome!
I checked gun broker, for the m700ss 5r milspec, and saw it in .308, but i also, saw a version in .300 win mag, will this be as accurate, will it be the same rifle? I want to get the 5r, but in 300 win. would be even better for long range shots, i need help.
Hey Toby great web site BTW ...i have the same question as David ...i did some research and by looking at Remingtons M24 profile it show the twist rate to be 11:25 for both 308 and 300 . the 338 for the M24A3 is 1:10...if you look at the Tikka tactical or really all, there twist rates for the 308 and 300 is the 11:25 which would apply for Sako, Beretta ect...the Remington 5r is a 1:10 for the 300 win mag, the same as my Sendero ...so am i really going to see that big of a improvement in group size buy not changing the twist rate and just going from 6 lans to 5 with the radius you thing?
I just ordered NXS 5.5-22X50 NP-R2 and ultralight rings for my virgin R5. I am unsure of what base as the scope has 100MOA of elevation travel. I am stoked!
check this out. I recorded 5 shot group at 100 yards using my 5R Milpec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCnOIY2SpPI
It is sweeeeeeeet!!!
Anon - sorry for the delay: I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. Do you already have a .308 with 1:11.25, or do you already have a .300 with 1:10?
If you already have a .308 with 1:11.25, my guess is that is a nice shooter - I wouldn't change it.
lovshooting - I've seen your video before, it's a great idea, but for some reason, my screen doesn't show the bullet holes...
I love the rolling commentary on that page, though!
Hey Toby good to see you back :) to answer the question above yes i already have the r5 in .308 , i love it and will never part with it . i also have a sendero in 300 win mag and would like to trade it in for the new r5 in 300 win mag that is out but, i will have to add about $400 with it in trade .The question is since Remington has kept it at 1:10 with the new rifle , is it going to be worth it to trade ? the only difference is the sendero is 6 lands versus the r5 at the same twist rate or is that more for bullet weight and not so much the accuracy? i shoot .75 with the sendero @ 100 yds pretty much all the time .
Gotcha.
That's a tough call, especially for $400. I think it would be cool to have matching rifles, especially since the .300's are (or seem to be) limited production.
But in truth, it will probably not be more accurate, just easier to clean. Hard to say, not hearing much on the new rifles yet...
Hi Toby,
Great rifle and very nice review! Mine should be here within a week or so and I can't wait. Question...What kind of sling are you using on the 5R? It looks very simple and heavy duty...just what I'm looking for. Where did you buy it?
Thanks...keep up the great blog!
Hey, glad to hear you've got one coming! The sling pictured is just a basic adjustable sling I bought on Midway USA. I upgraded to the Tactical Intervention M24 sling a bit later - I really like it because it has the velcro cuff that you can wear on your left arm - then just snap in when you want to get set to shoot...
Toby
Hey Toby, Thanks for the info on the sling. It's an Outdoor Connection "Super Sling 2" 1 1/4" at Midway USA. Just what I was looking for. Ok, so one more question... I'd love to know how / your proceedure for adding the Herculiner to your stock. I have always had the idea of using a similar material, but now I see the Herculiner fits the need perfectly! Did you mask off the grip areas with tape before applying, or did you "freehand" the Heculiner on top of the painted stock? How did the Herculiner adhere to the stock paint? Thanks again if you have time to answer.
I prepped the stock using the directions from Herculiner (clean with TSP, wipe down with rubbing alcohol, etc). In all honesty, it's probably overkill - Herculiner is SUPER sticky, it wouldnt have any trouble sticking to the stock, as long as any oil is cleaned off.
I freehanded the top of the stock, because masking tape leaves a very distinct raised edge, I wanted more of a feathered look. In some areas I was able to use paper towels with thinner to fix some errors.
Then I used the Duracoat paint to cover over the whole stock, and it looks really cool. A fun cheap project.
By the way, not sure if you have a truck or not, but it's awesome stuff in my truck bed - been a couple years now, still looks great.
Let me know how it goes!
Wow, I would not have thought duracoat would have adhered properly to the Heculiner...you did say that you painted over the Duaracoat, right? Thanks for your feedback!
I sanded the original stock a bit, to rough it up, applied Herculiner, then sprayed the entire stock with Duracoat. It worked like a champ - zero signs of any chipping, and the Herculiner is pretty absorbent, it took the Duracoat beautifully.
Thanks Toby...ok, I'm going to do a test run...on fiberglass...not on my rifle stock. But thats great news...that look andtexture is exactly what I'm after. I appreciate your help!
Good shooting!
I purchased one of the first milspec rifles that came out in 2001. I have nearly 8,000 rounds through it. It still punches one hole groups to 300 yds and holds about 6 inch groups at a 1000 yds. I reload and have never shot a factory round through this rifle. I have been through many loads and settled on a 190 berger vld set .005" off the rifling and IMR 4350 Powder with a 48.0gr charge. I have found No better combination for the milspec rifles. My local dealer gets the rifles in pretty regular. I have 8 of these rifles still in the box and just puchased a one in a 223 last week that expect to get out on the next nice day to test loads. I do bed the action and the recoil lug in all my long range rifles.
Happy shooting
Wow - very cool! Can't wait to hear how the .223 performs!
hey Toby BTW were you ever able to find out about the M118LR being seated to 2.855 ? another good question would be has anyone ever found out what powder federal uses in the gold metal match load ? some say it is 4895 , RL-15 or 4064...i kind of think that it is there own blend that is NOT available to the general public , but you can find a similar burn rate with the above powders . i know that all the R5 rifles shoot well but i also believe that each one is unique it what load works the very best in it , something that only you will find out with practices. the one i have seems to like 42g of RL-15 the 168 SMK or 175 SMK seem to fly about the same ....what are you thoughts ?
Yes, the 168's and 175's are very very close. I think the 175's simply stay supersonic a bit longer.
I've not seen M118's for a while, to measure them. Need to get my hands on some!
Although I have yet to find any as good as Federal I was buying some frangible rounds for my .45 and got a box of .308 frangible rounds to test out. I was surprised to find out how well these worked, my groups were very close to what I usually get out of my Federal. I can't say that I would use them past 200 yards, but will test them at 400 yards at some point. I haven't found anything that even comes close to Fed - Vital-Shok - 180 for shooting 300 & beyond.
http://www.frangiblebullets.com
I recently used my 5R mounted with a Swarovski Habicht AV 6 -18 x 50 P as well as a Rem 700P with a Leupold Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm LR/T M1 Illum. Reticle at targets @ 200, 300 & 400 yards. The scopes were like night and day. I noticed a drastic difference in the amount of natural light coming into the scopes. At 200 both seemed the same, but as I shot with each at 300 & 400 the Leupold gave an almost "sun glass" view of the target as if there was a "filter" within the scope. This was a very sunny day and I wouldn't thought twice about it until I used the Swarovski on the same target. The target came through as clean, crisp & clear. Also, I kept the settings the same on both scopes to compare. I mostly shoot at 100 & 200 so this isn't a big deal for me but I was wondering if anyone else noticed this? What gives? These scopes cost about the same (more than the guns they were on:)
frangible bullets are cool, I think the new Federal Tactical bullets come in a frangible powder variant...
Not sure that Vital Shok 180's are beyond compare though - have you shot gold medal, or black hills match?
Regarding the scopes; that is very interesting info - it looks like an apples to apples comparison, too... I've been wanting to try a Nightforce, or a US Optics!
I tried your load, Sierra 175 Match, this time in Black Hills brass, 41 grains of Varget, and seated at 2.855 OAL but with CCI 250 primers. Yes, it is accurate, but not particularly fast - I chronographed ten of them for an average speed of 2350fps.
Hey Kevin, good catch! I do need to spend more time with a chrono, 2350 is definately slower than I would prefer. Not debilitatingly slow, but still slow.
Hey Toby, the question.. 41 grains of Varget, and seated at 2.855 OAL as you posted , does the round touch the rifling at that length? god knows it has to be close .Could that cause a slight pressure spike? , but it seems to be accurate for you and working well ...i did load 50 rounds of your other spec of 41g of varget @ 2.810 OAL and have yet to try them because the range is down at our department for repairs but i cant wait . As for Kevin 2350 does sound slow , might be that the cci 250 primer is not as hot as federal or just the lot of Varget . Have you ever tried RL-15 yet ...it seems to work pretty darn good too...keep up the good work on the sight its the best place for the 5R.
I need to try RL-15, have read great things about it. As for the round touching the rifling, it doesn't, but I need to re-measure. Last time I checked I got a 2.91 reading, that seems pretty long...
Thanks for the comments, let me know how your test goes when the range opens back up!
UpDate on the 223 mil spec finally made it out to shoot it. I set it up with a IOR 6-24 x50 tactical scope along with IOR rings and bases. I lapped the bolt lugs and hand lapped the rifling and bedded the action and the recoil lug. This is how I set up every mil spec I have every remington as far as that goes. I only tried shells I had loaded for other rifles. I started with a 55gr vmax with Imr 4895 for the break in firing one shot then cleaning every shot for 10 rounds total it put those in about a 1.5 inch circle. I then switched to a 69gr Nosler custom competition with varget powder. I shot a five shot group which shot well inside a quarter. Then cleaned and shoot another five shot group which was inside of a nickel. Cleaned again and shot five rounds this time it was a one ragged hole group. Let everything cool and did not clean for the next five and it put them in a one hole group again that was about .375 hole. Cleaned rifling again and tried 2 40gr vmax loads 1 load was with h4198 and the 2 load was with h4895 both resulted in one ragged hole groups. I have been shooting these 5r milspec rifles since they cam out. I have been around about 30 of these rifles and haven't seen any shoot bad yet. If Any body would like to know how I set them up. Or what I reload for them I would be happy to help them. I currently have one in the 223 and 8 in the 308 and one in the 6.8 round and all shoot great.
Happy shooting Brant308@yahoo.com
Very nice! I've heard great things about the 6.8 round (6.5 as well).
Remington never made a milspec in 6.8 though, right? Did you re-barrel one, or are you just referring to a 700?
Thanks for posting!
Toby
They made a special production run I don't know exactly how many there were but my dealer ended up with 5 of them and I purchased 2 then my buddy bought the other one from me both shoots great. They have 1st production run stamped on the barrel. I don't believe they sold very good. My dealer had them for quit some time and could sell them I guess nobody was interested in the 6.8 round. He new I did some rebarreling and sold them to me for his cost. So if I didnt like it I'd just rebarrel the action to something else. But I took one out and played with it on the set up and Hell It shot great to 500 yds with the 115gr sierra matchking so I kept it and took it deer hunting Here in kansas where i live and set up for a field shot to test the rifle at a longer range. I ended up shooting a 8 point buck at 325 yds one shot center of chest he did run about 50 yds and piled up. So I figured it wasn't a bad round.
toby as good as you shoot ...have you ever thought about f-class shooting or some other type of competition?
Yes, I'd love to shoot F class - the cool thing about F class shooting, is it's about hitting the target, not group size. I think that's a bit more "practical", once you've got the groups dialed in anyway.
I have some scaled down targets, and have done a couple revised 200 yard competitions with a friend, but we don't have the 1,000 yard capability anywhere nearby...
From what I read it really looks cool - thanks for the post!
Toby,
Thanks again for the info. I have some minor nicks on the outside of the crown of my new 5R barrel. I was wondering this would affect accuracy. Thanks for your help!
Hi - it shouldn't, unless the nick is actually touching the lands and groves. Even then, it's probably ok. Is it not shooting well?
I just bought my 5R. It's brand new, and also its my first rifle. I should have caught the nicks and the chip on the corner of the barrel when at the gun shop, but i was so excited i actually found a 5R! Is there any way I can forward you a pic? I was inspired by your article thanks again for all the great info.
Sure - smithcomputing@hotmail.com
I have a 5r which i painted digital camo. Took about 4 days with sanding and in between drying. Painted scope and bipod as well. I shoot with few friends ranging in various firearm makes and calibers. I kick there ass everytime. Looking cool doing it is the icing.
Post a link to pictures! Sounds awesome.
hey toby , i havent posted in a while ( i know you cant tell because i havent figured out how to put my name up lol) well the question is how do you like your TPS rings and base ? it looks on par with badger and night force but for a fraction of the cost. i can order the rings , but the base is out of stock :( both would run 153.00 that is a great deal if it is quality ...keep up the great work ..jay
Hi Jay,
I like them just fine - have had no trouble at all with zero, and they are super beefy. I'd go with TPS again, if I had to do it over. Would love Badger, but that's a lot of cash!
Does anyone have data on group size before and after glass bedding this gun? Is it worth glass bedding to shrink the already tiny groups?
Hey Toby, Love your site and appreciat all the useful information. I'm in the process of selling my AR-10 and looking to get a 5R, when you got base and rings did you get the base with +moa. I saw some with +10 & +20 and was wondering if I should go with that since I am looking at going to the farther distances at a later point.
thanks again for all your fine work,
seekers
Seekers - thanks for the comments. What AR10 are you selling?
My base is flat (0 MOA). If I was routinely going to shoot 600+ yards, I'd rather have some cant to it (probably 20), but I don't get the chance very often...
No real harm in either though, from what I understand.
Keep us posted!
Toby
This covers my AR:
This AR-10 heavy 20" Chrome lined Stainless Steal barrel has plenty of extras and upgrades. Starting with GG&G Swan Sleeve W/Pop up rear site, Removeable Front site, Upgraded pistol grip, and Mag release latch to accept new generation 25 round mags. It comes with 2- NEW 25 ROUND mags and 1- 10 round mag. Both factory Armalite. Also has 1 point Sling integrated into rifle frame(Blue Force Gear Victory Series)Comes with one piece Scope mount/rings! Also has Badger Ordinance extended tactical latch. Well that's the pkg, I just barely put it on a little free board and I've got some calls so I should be moving it pretty soon, I hope. I price it at $2200 which I though was pretty good and I'm anxious to get started on the Remington pkg. Thanks for getting back to me on the bases. I'm a member of a range about 10 miles from me that I can shoot out to 800 yards and will prob go with the +20 moa. ;-) thanks again for all your postings and help, It will for sure save me and others much time and money, Seekers
Toby, with the amount of guys that post here would there be any possibility of bulk purchases? Just a thought, I don't want to handle any money or anything :-) But with the amount of shooting I want to do I wouldn't mind getting a deal if possible either.
I'd send my money to you if you get deals. No big deal, just a thought. Maybe some of the guys just can compare deals? You don't have to post this it is just an idea to share. Where do you buy brass and bullets?
Thanks in part to your site, I now have a 5R and a SWFA SS scope. Great work.
Do you have a favorite loading using Lake City M118LR (or similar) brass? I guess I could shave some powder out of a .308 load and work up, but was wondering if you had anything you've already tried with success.
Thanks!
My current load is 42g Varget, with Fed GMM primers. I use Sierra 175 match bullets, seated to 2.855 OAL.
If anything, that load is probably a bit weak, but it's the best I've had in terms of accuracy. I need to chrono it real soon.
Take care,
Toby
Seekers - no worries, happy to post your question. I've not come across any opportunities for bulk purchases, but will mention it if I do. Right now, supplies are tight across the board - here's hoping that changes soon.
Hi Toby, correction on the AR-10 the SS barrel isn't chrome lined. They didn't do that to the SS barrels, to the best of my knowledge. ;-)
Thanks, Seekers
Hi Toby, have you, or anybody else for that matter, noticed a differance in accuracy with differant primers? I've heard some people swear by certain primers and just wondered if anybody here has noticed a real differance. Thanks, Seekers
Hi Seekers,
I've been meaning to try CCI match primers, I've heard good things about them. Primers are impossible to find right now though, I'm down to my last box of Fed GMM!
Wow, outstanding group! I don't think I'd be trying anything differant. If it's not broke don't fix it. LOL
Regards, Seekers
I know this isn't the right page for it but do you have a link to the ctd bag or scope cover. This is the one I found and wondered if it was like your friends:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ZBQ1081-1.html#Reviews
this blackhawk one here looks nice:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/55643-1.html
sure hope I'm not being a pest, Seekers
His is this one: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MOLLE182-7.html
Good day Toby!
New guy on the block
Got myself a 5r milspec last fall and I put a Bushnell Elite 6500 4.5-30x50mm on it. The way it's set up now it won't reach 1000yds, I need a 20moa base and the proper scope rings. The rings must be high enough so the 50mm bell clears the barrel. Do you have any suggestions.
Oh yes before I forget when you reload do you put any crimp on your bullet
Hi Jonny,
Yes, I use the Lee factory crimp die to crimp the bullets.
For your base, you'd really have to do some hands on tests - it's too hard for me to say offhand... I'd start with low rings though, my guess is they will work.
Its me again toby!
I'm new at reloading rifle bullets. What's the difference between Lee factory crimp die and crimp die from my Dillon set of die.
No problem, Jonny - glad to have you.
I don't know the answer to that question though. All I know is that Lee makes a special crimp die, with four cross-sections that come together and crimp evenly... They say it's just as good as the factory.
Good day Toby
I've being noticing that your groupings are getting much better (I'm jealous by the way lol)would you say that adjusting your OAL is a big factor to your accuracy.
No, I've had good groups (bad groups) with all ammo I've tried. I think my current recipe is good, but not magic.
I'll tell you what has really been working for me though:
First, I use a swivel bipod, but have the legs as tight as I can. That allows me to make sure the scope is level, but keeps it from tipping off level too easily.
Second, I REALLY concentrate on natural point of aim - getting my body in a place where the rifle is naturally pointed at the target. If I feel like I'm having to muscle the rifle to the left or right while aiming, I stop, and start over.
Third, I've been super patient with breathing, trigger pull, and follow through. Once I shoot, I wait for a couple seconds, look through the scope to see which way it jumped (usually left a bit), and then I eject the round, put the brass away, and look through my spotting scope. This gives me probably 2 minutes between each shot, and keeps the rifle cool. Kind of like a pre-shot routine in golf!
I still get very frustrated, because many times my final shot will be a flyer. That tells me I'm getting too excited - which confirms that any issues are my own and not the equipment.
Hope that helps! To be sure, I'm no expert - I've not had any formal training other than friends, and I've only been doing this a couple years - take my advice with a grain of salt!
-Toby
Good day Toby!
You mentioned to me that you use a Lee factory
crimp on your load. How much of a crimp do you put on light, medium or heavy crimp.
JonnyBender
Toby,
What are your best loads for your rifle? I've got some 175mk and varget so far.
My Rifle-Rem.5r, Ken Farrell base, Super Sniper 10x Side Focus, TPS Rings.
Chad
So did you see that Remington decided to push the 5R experiment? I'm sure the barrel length has something to do with their online poll asking what length barrel do people prefer which obviously has 26" winning.. only has a choice between 24 & 26
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/15/remington-model-700-target-tactical/
Cool! Looks like it is here too: http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_tactical_target.asp
Not so sure what the point of a triangular barrel is, but this looks pretty nice.
For the extra money it costs I think I would add the stock(either the B&C or HS A5) and go with the Badger Ordnance Detachable Magazine set up. They could keep the triangle barrel until it's got a few years of trail and success behind it. I also prefer the 24" barrel. IMHO
Speaking of the BO detachable Mag system I just ran across this thread:
Remington 700SS 5R Milspec .308, Steel bedded into a
Bell & Carlson Tactical Adjustable stock
Badger Thruster Muzzle Brake (installed by Randall)
Badger Tactical bolt knob (installed by Randall)
Bolt handle reinforced with 3 screws (done by Randall)
Badger M5 Detachable Mag system (installed by Randall)
Factory trigger adjusted to just under 2lbs
EGW scope base
Millett LRS-1 6-25x56 35mm scope
Accu-Shot Rail mounted Monopod with the Quick Knob and Tactical cap upgrade.
Harris BRMS 6-9" Bipod with podloc
with pics here:
I just thought you (Toby) might be interested, it's your choice to post or not. I have no objections though.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=47532&highlight=5R+MIL+STOCK&page=45
seekers
Hi Toby, I saw a few posts ago that someone had asked you about marksmanship, as you have some fantastic groups, and you gave him some good basic advise.
Here is an outstanding detailed thread from SNIPERSHIDE that really does indepth from the basics to training and equipment. I thought if you thought it was beneficial you might want to post the link.
I think one good pointers was about saving money shooting your rimfire while establishing good fundamentals. Instead of only shooting your centerfire rifle, shoot your rimfire 60/40 or even more when working fundamentals. With ammo prices where they are this could mean a big savings as could dry fire practice.
Impressive list.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=237232#Post237232
Are these a good idea our what? :-) He can do custom for whatever caliber and barrel length you have. This is about as handy as you can get.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1187986&gonew=1#UNREAD
Just made a new load for my rifle yesterday. I used federal brass trimmed to 2.005", winchester LR primers, 41.2grains of H4895, 175 SMK seated at 2.800. Velocity is 2680 fps. Fired four 100 yard groups with it. All were under 0.2"
-Demetri
Hello Toby and everyone,
A question for you that seek small groups. Are you guys neck turning your cases? I have a .308 5R, got it 3 months ago, and am having trouble getting consistent super small groups (only 2, 3 shot groups under .250 at 100yds). "Super small" meaning .300 or less.
I have not neck turned my brass. I want to get a neck turner that I can use my power screw driver to turn the case. I am thinking about the Sinclair premium neck turner, but it's expensive ($200). Does anyone have suggestions on a neck turner? And, do I need to neck turn to get those small of groups (assuming I keep an eye on run-out)?
Demetri, just a note, my two best loads yet are as follows:
Lake City brass trimmed to 1.995", cci LR primers,41-41.5 grains of IMR4895, 155 SMK palma at 2.800. Don't know velocity. 2, 3 shot groups were .224 and .229 at 100yds.
Scott
Seekers,
To Anonymous, Great groups! Seems like you found what works for you. Keep it up.
To Scoot, first I don't have my 5R yet but when I handloaded for my Sendero in 300 WM, I didn't turn the necks, just because I didn't have one. Now there is some concern that it causes early failure of the brass. Causing it to crack in the neck but some people still turn/chamfer. I would think that if you are getting some groups in the desired "super small" range there is something else plaguing your inconsistency.
Try going over your mechanics, stability, breathing, etc... make sure you are using the same batches of bullets for groups and if you are determined to try turning your brass. Try a Lee turner/chamfer tool for under $10. It's manual but you can try it and if it doesn't help you didn't waste a lot.
Just my humble opinion.
Hi Toby, I think I saw that you were going to try Berger 180 grn at one point, did you ever try those and how did they work out? I thought of that because I ran across an auction for Sierra 180 grain HPBT Match on GunBrokers. I think this might be a new item for them, it's the first time I remember seeing this weight for them anyway. The price was $169.17 per 500 on a Dutch auction, plus shipping of course. I've noticed that we've had an increase in availability of ammo and reloading supplies, in our area anyway. Maybe they're catching up with the demand side of things. Hope you are doing well and the range work is always improving.
to scott's question on small groups.
It sounds like you have everything going good. The only other thing would be to Bed the action unless you've already done that. It usually keeps the flyers down.
I wanted to file an update. So far my best handload has been the Lapua 155 grain Scenar bullet in a Lapua case, CCI BR-2 large rifle benchrest primers, and 46.2 grains of Reloder 15 with an overall length of 2.80". (Use at your own risk!) Velocity average over 20 rounds was 2880fps with a standard deviation of <9fps. A 10-shot group at 200 yards was .75MOA.
10 shots at .75 - AWESOME!!
Just wanted to let you guys know, this guy has one left I just got the other one. Please buy it so I dont call back and get the other one! Thanks for the site and info. Ordered mine to day. any recomendations on a scope set up. I am new to this all and any info will be a great help.
Here is his site adress. check him out
www.schryvergunsales.com
$920 SHIPPED!!!
nice guy to talk to and seemed honest.
I just bought one and love it. Still working up the nerve to paint it. I'm getting great results with Fiocchi factory ammo loaded with Sierra Match King 168 grain bullets that I picked up for a steal at www.westernsportonline.com. Use discount code EBAY10 and you can pick up ammo for around $1 per round for match loads.
Concerning Lin at schryvergunsales he is a great guy to deal with. I didn't see this post but did get that last 5R in 308! I sold my AR-10 the day before and they sent out the money orders the same day I saw the ad. He sold it to me and even waved the Credit Card fee. I also picked up a Bushnell elite 4200 6X24X40 to go on it (from another source) but haven't received the base and rings yet. I'm hoping to get to the range by Wed. happy training to all
I had enough money left over to get a Bell & Carlson Varmint/Tactical stock, adjustable comb and 3 way Adjustable Butt. I also found a new (old stock) pre-2006 complete w/safety trigger that is on the way. I've been reading that these X-Marks are good for awhile and then get very heavy and need to be adjusted again and it sometimes doesn't hold that well. Most seem pleased with the older model and recommend it. Any feedback on the Xmark triggers? Got my new torque wrench and just waiting for the soope base..... PATIENTLY!!
HA!
Toby, have you noticed any difference shooting match ammo that was 7.62 vs .308? I just picked up some Lake City 173 Gr 7.62 Match M118 and someone questioned whether the accuracy would be off? I haven't even been able to do the break in yet so I thought I'd ask some that are more experienced about their trail and error. Sure hope it's OK I got it for $20.50 a box local estate sale. He also had LC Match 30-06, which I don't shoot, for the same price. I assume it's about 1982 as the lot # is LC-82C132-022 but I'm just guessing. It was always stored in ammo cans and I picked up 1200 rounds, about half of what he had. Thanks, Seekers
The M118 is real nice stuff, if it's real. I've seen some junk out there marked M118. The key is an "LR" stamped on the head, as well as LC for Lake City.
M118 ammo wasn't too great, till they came out with the "long range" version.
Hope this helps! $20 a box is awesome!
What made you choose steel over an aluminum scope base? Is it because you’re not humping the weight and/or durability? What’s the proper torque for the base screws (does it change depending on the base or screw type)? I’m leaning towards an EGW 3” extended Picatinny mount – 0MOA – looking for a wider option in eye relief.
I recently purchased a 5R and am in the process of getting it all together.
Thanks, your site has been an inspiration –
Ceb
Hi Ceb,
It was a price issue, combined with the fact that weight wasn't a big concern.
I'm pretty sure the spec for the base and rings was 15 inch pounds (not foot pounds!). I think I read somewhere that 15 inch pounds is about as tight as you can turn the short side of an allen wrench...
Hope that helps, glad you like the site!
To anyone who may have experience with my particular observations with my 5R. I have a 5R and a 700p The 5R is fitted with a Mc Millan A4 and Horus Vision. The 700P has an HS and NXS 5.5-22-50. I routinely shoot 600, through 1000 yards and have noticed the same issue in both rifles. Very consistent hits at 600, a few misses at 700, then one or two bullseye hits followed by a few misses then maybe a hit then a miss at 800. At 900 and 1000 yards fewer hits than misses. Both rifles will shoot .025" at 200 yards regularly. I have only ever used FGMM 175gr. I wrote this problem of LR accuracy off to having trouble with wind but have had same problem on days that were absolutely dead calm. At distance I have shot at a rate faster than 2 min. between shots but also have waited for a "cooler bore" at times as well. So my question is, any idea why such accurate rifles seem to fizzle out beyond 600 yards. I realize I could be a huge problem in this but I also have a AR15 SPR with NF 5.5 22 50 that I can get 10" at 700 every time I shoot. I would rather be able to say that about my precision rifles. Thank you so much for any help, thoughts, opinions. JAJ
To Anonymous,
On long range accuracy, Why don't you post some more about it? What kind of groups are you getting at those distances? 700, 800, 1K? What kind of ammo? factory/handloads vel/bullets/powder
Maybe it will help,
Seekers
I'm sorry for being so vague, I cannot even say that I have been able to get any grouping info for ranges from 700 to 1000. I have a range set up with KD's of 200 to 1000. I have 6 inch steel circles from 200 to 500 yds. I have 18"X30" steel IPSC silloute gongs from 600 to 1000. After checking zero with each rifle(which both are at or under .025 at 200) I will shoot 200 to 500 where my groups are at or close to .5 MOA. I then shoot 600 thru 1000. Shots on 600 yield hits every shot and at times can get under 1 MOA depending on wind. 700 to 1000 I start missing and hits are sometimes grouped well(1.5 MOA) and sometimes all over the plate. sometimes the vertical grouping is satisfactory with maybe 3" of verticle at 700 and sometimes worse. When I shoot 800 the issues described at 700 just tend to get worse and so on to 900 and 1000. I've made cold bore shots at 900 hitting bullseye (POA) with both rifles. then consecutive shots under same conditions just 3 to 5 minutes later are misses or are randomly anywhere on the steel. I have had days that I have had all shots fired at 1000 inside 48 inches and other days (same or better conditions) with no hits at all. I use Federal GMM308M2 175 grain BTHP only. Long range shooting is prone off bipod or sandbag,( plan to start reloading at end of year) Both rifles are "out of the box" Remington 700 P and Remington 5R Milspec. Again , I realize that I am a part of rifle accuracy and have my end to deal with but I cant get past the logic that if I can get .025" groups @ 200yds. that takes Marksmanship fundamentals to do that, and If I can employ those same fundamentals to the longer ranges I should be getting better results. I don't know,, am I wrong for thinking this?? JAJ
i'm no long range expert, but boy, this sure sounds like a wind issue. that's one major difference from short range shooting...
To Anonymous,
"What Toby said" If the rifle is maintaining the same group size between 200 and 500 yards. It just has to be an outside influence effecting the bullet. IMHO, Like they say a 1" MOA rifle shoots a 1" group at 100 yards and a 10" group at a 1000 yards.
It sure sounds like you are doing your part, nice shooting.
Seekers
Hey Toby, I know that you said that your rifle tends to group 175 grain bullets better. Is it still worth trying some 168's? Have the 175's been such a clearly superior choice that I should not waste my time with them? Also, cheaper than dirt has some M118 in 175's at the moment, but I cannot tell if these are the LR version that you mentioned. Should it have a LR designation on the box?
I think 168's are great - I've shot some real nice groups with them. The issue is that they don't stay supersonic for as long as the 175's. So for inside 800 yards, they are just fine.
The M118 on Cheaper than Dirt (in my opinion only) is fake. Unless the rules around the Lake City production have changed, I don't think it's the good stuff. My neighbor has some, and it hasn't shot nearly as well as the LR stuff...
I could be wrong though!
Thanks for the info. I will stick with Match ammo from Federal, Black Hills and Remington. I am picking up my new 5R today, and look forward to getting stared with it. Ordered rail and rings from TPS based on feedback from this site. Appear to be a great value. Ordered 20 MOA rail and medium rings for a NF 5.5x22x56 based on recommendations from TPS. They appear to have great customer service. Very willing to exchange rings if not low enough.
Found the following barrel break in procedure here: http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/barrel-break-in.html
Appears to be a credible website. Any opinions on barrel break in procedures would be welcomed, as I want the best for this new rifle.
Thanks.
Toby,
Just wanted to thank you for maintaining this blog site. I went to a gun show three months ago and a dealer had two Remington 5-R's. I went home and Goggled the rifle and read half of the comments....immediately drove back to the gun show and bought one. I put a Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z 600 scope on it and am shooting .25" groups with Federal 168 Matchking (factory loads). Will use this rifle solely for hunting and plan to take my first deer at 500 yards this November after a little more practice. I did make one guy next to me at the shooting range angry when I told him how much I paid for the rifle. He was shooting .75" groups with a $3,500 custom rifle that he waited 6 months to receive.
Thanks again,
Tommy
Tommy - thanks for the post! Congrats on your rifle, sounds like a sweet setup!
Hi Toby,
I got one of these rifles over 5 years ago from Turners Sporting Goods in Southern CA.
It was just by chance that they had this rifle and at the time I just wanted a plain 700.
After the sales guy gave his two cents - i was sold on picking it up @1K out the door.
On just one of my first few outings with this rifle at 100 yards I got a clover using federal gold match. My scope was a cheapy $60 Tasco... : ( it's still there - do you like your super sniper? I was hoping to get a US Optics 30mm but getting married sort of changed that..an SS would be a whole lot cheaper!
Great write up on this sleeper gun - I got to know it's story because of you.
thanks!
Thanks for all your work, Toby. I’ve finally had a chance to stretch my 5R out, just a little, and am very pleased. Some friends and I took time out from a dove hunt in West Texas to shoot from sand dune to sand dune. At 465 yds, I grouped 5 shots at 3.15 inches. Discounting the flyer, 4 shots were inside 1.75. Lying prone, with bipod on a sand dune, shooting through the West Texas wind, I’ll take 4 shots in 2 inches at 465 yds and smile while I’m at it.
Burris 8 X 32 on Leupold rings and solid base.
175 gr. Sierra Match King
43 gr. Varget
Federal 210M
Lapua Brass
All squished together on a Rock Chucker.
Toby,
Did you happen to use any sort of break in process? Whatever method you used seems to have worked well.
And other owners of R-5s please share your techniques also.
Thanks
Check out this link: http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/downloads.htm I followed the instructions here, fairly closely.
To JAJ,
To me it sounds like possibly the wind. Do you shoot with wind flags? What is the terrain like that you are shooting over (flat grass land, mountains). Is the air temp the same?
But, if the conditions are accounted for, you might check the runout of the bullets. I find my 5r does not like runout more than .003 when shooting at longer ranges (600-900yds). How clean is your barrel? Good luck sir...
What was the reloading info on your group on 6.5.09? You may have mentioned it but I was just wondering? My local range goes out to 500 and I shot a group just over 3 inches at that distance yesterday. I also shoot a fixed ten power scope and I think if I had a little more power it would be alot tighter.
Pretty sure it was 41g Varget, with Sierra 175 @ 2.855OAL.
what inch pounds did you use putting together the rings and bases old wise master jedi for the tps products....
If I remember correctly, it was 15 inch pounds for the scope rings, and the scope base, 65 inch pounds for mounting the rings to the base itself. Does that make sense?
I actually referred to some of the Badger Ordnance documentation - it helped a lot...
Toby, thanks for all the great info.
What is the overall length of the rifle?
I'm trying to find a case while I'm waiting for delivery, thanks.
Toby, do a little research into bullets going subsonic and you will find that a 308 win goes subsonic at about 800 yards. you will have to use a chrony and load to a higher velocity with the right bullet to overcome the problem of the groups opening up past 800 yards
That's the beauty of the175 grain match bullet. Supersonic past 1000!
Looking to purchase a 5r, would like to get the 300 but haven't heard that it's any more accurate than the Sendero. Is my best choice the .308? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
hey toby its about time for you to go to the range again and post some shooting results ( love looking at the pictures lol) ....is there any other rifles that you get great groups with ? .well they finaly got the range open at the department again , i tried the varget 41gn on the 175 smk ...it shhots good but i keep going back to the RL-15 , it just seems to be the best choice for most of the 308 rifles i have except one ...the new savage 10 pc that is out , it likes the varget ...i am going to try the 2.855 coal because i truly think the length is one of the most critical things with tuning a load along with case firing for the gun ....you know the most accurate rifle i have is the remington xcr compact tactical it is just sick how it shoots .330 all day @ 100 with just plain non-case fired 168g smk on top of RL-15 , 210m primer with any old brass at 2810 coal .....well hurry up and get to the range ......jay
Jay - I just bought some RL-15 for the first time!
What's a good load I should start with?
I'll work up a batch, and see how it does.
Thanks for the post!
congrats on the powder i really do think that it will be on par with the varget results , i think if you dont like it as much as the varget, it will be a defenite go to powder if you cant find the other ....you cant go wrong with starting at 42 grains ,Fed 210M primer(if you can find them )Fed brass... i use that all the time, it seem to be a good universal load for all 5 of my 308's with a 2810 C.O.A.L ..I have seen some postings that the M118LR is loaded wtih 43.1GN of RL-15, ...i am willing to try that and see how it works ...i am sitting here with 50 RDS loaded with powder and 175 smk just sitting on them waiting to be seated lol , i am just looking around at some seatting depths to try , so you seat them to 2.855 and the bolt still closes ?.. i havent taken the gun out the safe to check and see if it works ( thats what i should do ) but its such a pain in the butt to get it all put back (lazy i guess lol)....i really enjoyed reading your shootiing tech that you use to get your groups , it really helped me shrink up mine a bit ....one thing that i really think is that case fired brass its a must to get the most out of any rifle .....well let me know how it goes with the loads ... i really enjoy the information that everyone post on the site it is very helpful ....jay
Hello Toby, (I'm Shakeber, sorry for posting as anonymous)I have been reading this thread for a while and find it very informative. Thanks for all you have shared. I bought my 5r in 308 back in September and soon thereafter broke the barrel in by shooting 20 rounds thru it and cleaning between each shot using Bore Tech supplies. I eventually set up my rifle as a hunting rifle. I used TPS for the rail and for the tactical rings. I installed a Leupold VX3 4.5 X 14 40mm with Boone and Crockett reticle. I am consistently getting .5 moa at 100 and 200 yds. using 165 gr. Sierra Gameking loaded with 44 gr. of Win 748 powder (~2740 muzzle vel.). I have access to a 1000 yd range but can only effectively shoot to 500 yds with my scope. Last week hit a coke can at 500 yds. I was totally stoked!!! Again, I am set up as a hunting rifle as I live in south Texas. Thanks for your site. You have a big fan here.
Dude! A coke can at 500 yards, awesome! Good work, and thanks for the post.
hi everyone,and toby.. have anyone ever tried imr 4064? i have a good luck on 42.5 varget seated 2.825 175 smk less than half inch 100 yard 5 shot.i live in hawaii varget comes around barely.now i left with two option imr 4895 and imr 4064 which one should i play? tnx in advance
by the way yall having great groupings making me jealous im looking for a load that is concisted from 100 yard too 400
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